WRONGFUL DEATHS ON KAREN'S WATCH

Karen admitted that she watched the video of an inmate who died and that it was disturbing, but did nothing about it.

• Page 85, line 10:

  • Q: Did you do anything to make sure that that never happened again, what you saw that disturbs you so much?

  • A: I did nothing specific. 

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Karen admitted that she had not looked at the mortality reviews of people who had died in the jail, and later admits she has in fact not looked at a single one and does not know how many people have died in the jail under her tenure.

• Page 10, line 24 to page 11, line 2

  • Q: …if you can tell the jury where you know – one way or the other, whether or not you know anything about mortality reviews…

  • A: Well, I would tell you that I have not looked at mortality reviews.

• Page 11, line 20

  • Q: …But just so the jury’s aware, you’ve not ever read even a single mortality review of an inmate who’s died in the jail; correct?

  • A: No, sir.

• Page 11, line 24 to page 12, line 1

  • Q: Do you know how many people have died in the jail since 2005?

  • A: No. 

• Page 12, line 4

  • Q: Have you taken any steps to review that data?

  • A: No.

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Karen admitted that she had not read the statute on county commissioner duties as they pertain to the county jail until she’d been a county commissioner several years, and that was only because the county was being sued over a death of a person in the jail. 

• Page 7, line 14:

  • Q: Okay. And prior to my deposition, had you ever read it? (deposition took place in 2015)

  • A: No. Not that I recall, no.​​

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Karen described the way she fulfills her statutory obligations as “the minimum”

• Page 18, line 21

  • Q: But this is a one-paragraph provision that just very plainly lays out your minimum obligations as a county commissioner, and it’s your testimony that you don’t even do the minimum, right?

  • A: We do the minimum.

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Karen claimed that her duties as a county commissioner related to the jail were limited to touring the jail once per year. Said the once per year tour is about three hours.

• Page 6, line 7

  • Q: Can you tell the jury what your obligation is as a county commissioner, statutory obligation, as it pertains to the jail?

  • A: We actually just tour the jail once a year and that is our obligation to the jail.

• Page 8, line 14

  • Q: Okay. But without having read the statute, the one paragraph, you’re comfortable telling the jury that you knew what your obligations were as a county commissioner; correct? 

  • A: We knew that we had to tour the jail once a year.

• Page 9, line 10

  • Q: Okay. And since you have the statute in front of you, tell the jury what your understanding of “shall inspect” means.

  • A: We would simply go through and tour the jail.

• Page 16, line 6

  • Q: And so a three-hour tour at most?

  • A: Easily.

  • Q: And once a year; correct?

  • A: Yes, sir. 

• Page 21, line 11

  • Q: We talked about the extent of what you did to ensure that those statutory obligations that you have are being met, and you just simply stated that you did the jail tour a couple hours a year; correct?

  • A: Yes.

  • Q: Okay. Is that the extent of what you’ve done to fulfill your statutory obligations since 2005 through the time that we’re sitting here today?

  • A: Yes. 

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Karen admitted that she does not review the information/data from the jail administrator that she is required to receive by law, describes it as a cursory review, says it would be very difficult to review it, even impossible. 

• Page 13, line 11

  • Q: Can you tell the jury, though, just what your process is for reviewing that stack of information that Ms. Robinette gives you?

  • A: I mean, it’s nearly impossible. If it was a small jail – but I mean, with – we rely on the sheriff to take care of the jail as well as the medical providers. 

• Page 13, line 17

  • Q: So I just want to make it clear. When Ms. Robinette gives you this stack of paperwork, you don’t actually review it despite the statutory obligation to do so?

  • A: It’s cursory so you look through it, but single-spaced – it‘s a very – it would be very difficult. Again, we rely on the sheriff to run the jail. 

• Page 14, line 18

  • Q: And what do you mean by “cursory look”?

  • A: It’s impossible, I’m sorry, with – no. I can glance through it if there are incidents, yeah.

• Page 19, line 6

  • A: It’s virtually impossible for me to do that.

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Karen repeatedly says that she/the County Commissioners rely on the Sheriff to run the jail – very similar to how she says they have no control over FCJJ and they relied on the judge to run the facility

• Page 4, line 5

  • Q: Okay. So don’t you think that as a county commissioner, who’s getting paid to do this service for the community, it would be important to review the mortality reviews of the inmates who have passed away in the jail?

  • A: I would tell you that I am not a medical expert. We rely on the sheriff to run the jail…that’s the extent of my role.

• Page 27, line 4

  • Q: I’m just wondering from your understanding of what your obligations are and your role as a county commissioner, do you believe that it’s within your scope to have discussions pertaining to the adequacy of the medical delivery system at the Tulsa County Jail?

  • A: No. We rely on the sheriff to take care of that as well as our legal counsel. 

• Page 38, line 5

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff to carry out their contracts. That’s our job.

• Page 39, line 11

  • A: We rely on him to do his job.

• Page 39, line 16

  • A: We rely simply on the sheriff to do his job. 

• Page 40, line 7

  • A: We rely on the sheriff.

• Page 40, line 24

  • A: I trust that the sheriff is doing his job.

• Page 41, line 1

  • A: I believe that the sheriff is doing his job.

• Page 54, line 17

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff to do his job. 

• Page 56, line 18

  • Q: My question is specifically, the recommendation that a person who is a registered nurse with administrative experience, whether they were ever employed by the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office to monitor the contract?

  • A: You know, I don’t recall. The sheriff runs the jail. That’s his responsibility. 

• Page 57, line 6

  • Q: As a county commissioner, why would you not want to ensure that these recommendations that you’ve paid so much money for are actually being implemented?

  • A: I mean, I would want to get the best end result. But, again, I rely on the sheriff as a county commissioner to do his job. 

• Page 59, line 1

  • Q: But you’re not even aware of that as a county commissioner who has a statutory obligation to ensure healthcare at the jail?

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff to run the jail, to run his department. 

• Page 59, line 11

  • A: And, again, we rely on the sheriff to run the jail. 

• Page 71, line 12

  • A: Because we rely on the sheriff to run his jail.

• Page 72, line 10

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff to run the jail…and we would do the annual tour of the jail and that was what I perceived as our obligation. 

• Page 91, line 14

  • A: We rely on the sheriff to have adequate medical care in that jail facility.

• Page 118, line 12

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff’s office to do his job, take care of the medical, have a medical provider in place to do that job. 

• Page 142, line 4

  • A: Again, we rely on the sheriff to do his job at the jail. 

• Page 143, line 20

  • A: We rely on the sheriff to run the jail.

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Karen described Sheriff Glanz as someone who is honored, progressive, and said she’s proud of the jail. Claimed she trusted him because he’d been given awards. Karen then admitted that she’s not relying on any data to make the assessment of the jail. 

• Page 41, line 13

  • Q: Did you believe Mr. Glanz was doing his job…”

  • A: …Here’s what I know about the sheriff. He has been honored nationally for the work that he’s done. He helped create a very good jail, helped design it. He’s been honored – given so many honors throughout his career. I don’t know if people understand that. So there’s a degree of trust as a member of the Board of County Commissioners.  

• Page 41, line 19

  • Q: When you say he’s created a very good jail, that’s your testimony; right?

  • A: Yes, I believe we have.

• Page 42, line 2

  • A: He was always on the cutting edge…He was honored for all sorts of things, doing progressive work…So, you know, I’ve always been proud of our jail. …This sheriff has been recognized and honored nationally for his work.

• Page 45, line 1

  • Q: …is there another part of it with actually like substantive data that you’ve looked at?

  • A: I can’t – nothing specific. 

• Page 46, line 8

  • Q: You mentioned something about Prison Rape Elimination, he’s been very progressive in that regard; is that correct?

  • A: Yes. 

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Karen admitted that the County Commissioners did not take steps to ensure the Sheriff was adequately overseeing the jail’s medical provider.

• Page 36, line 9

  • Q: Do you know anything that the county commissioners have put in place to make sure that the sheriff is actually monitoring the contract with the county – with the private medical provider?

  • ​A: No.

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Finally, Karen refused to say it was inappropriate for the sheriff to disregard violations at the jail pertaining to the medical provider.

• Page 32, line 25

  • Q: Do you agree with her [legal counsel] that it’s inappropriate for the sheriff to disregard any and all violations as it pertains to CHC?

  • A: I mean, I just wouldn’t want to weigh in on a conversation or try to judge somebody else’s response to this. 

• Page 34, line 21

  • A: I mean, I’m just not sure how to respond to that. I don’t want to speculate on what the sheriff was doing or not doing.